As a descendent of the Red River Métis land script people – I have watched the process of the MMF land claim process with interest. My forefathers were given title to river lots along the Red River – as were their children.
Now when we watch this case unfold it is a curiosity to me that we sit in a situation where we do not reside in Manitoba and in fact have not for many generations but yet an organization – that does not represent us – is putting forward a case on behalf of our ancestors. We have not been consulted or made aware of the premise of where this case will end. So does this mean that if David or MMF get a large payout on behalf of our Ancestors that we will then sue the MMF for the damages that may have resulted from the loss of script to our families? Or do we sit and watch MMF do the same with the payout that they would be awarded and mishandle the funds that should have never been theirs? It makes for interesting questions – What damages did the MMF suffer as a result of the loss of various families script. Do they think we would still own all the lands around the river lots and would have not disposed of them for payment – much like many other land holders?
Truthfully – I have looked at this with the thought that it furthers the Métis cause – in spite of where this may take us. Maybe that is one of the things that we have to do as descendents is take one for the Métis cause – which is fine if there is something in place to ensure that the resources that are received are in trust for the future generations of the Métis across Canada. Many of those descendents are not a part of the MMF and David Chartrand does not represent our interests.
In today’s Winnipeg Free Press there was an article pertaining to their view of the status of the case. I know our young Métis lawyer, Jason Madden gave a report recently that does not share views with the article – but as in most things – 10 lawyers will have 20 opinions. You can access the entire article at - http://canadiandimension.com/articles/2008/03/02/1638/
Some interesting exerts are:
Métis running out of options in land claims case
Charles Huband
Winnipeg Free Press March 2, 2008
…….The litigation began close to three decades ago. Part of the delay was due to pre-trial sparring and part because of the complexity of the issues. Perhaps the largest reason was because the Métis Federation was anxious to obtain the offer of a financial settlement package that never materialized.
Essentially, the Métis Federation, representing approximately 130,000 Métis people in Manitoba, was seeking a declaration that, between them, the two governments had cheated the Métis people of their entitlement to a land base in Manitoba, when it became a province in 1870. The Métis Federation recognized the impossibility of acquiring a huge land grant well over a century after the event. The Federation hoped to obtain a declaration that in turn would require the governments to provide a financial package of equivalent value.
As things now stand there is no declaration in favour of the Métis Federation and no prospect of financial rewards. And the outlook on appeal is bleak.
….There were numerous issues argued before Judge MacInnes: Did the Métis Federation have the necessary status to bring the action? Was the case out of time either because of the Limitations of Actions Act, or simply because of the inordinate lapse of time? Did Canada and Manitoba owe a fiduciary duty to the Métis people? Was Canada obliged to protect the Métis in the negotiations in the same manner that the interests of Indian people must be protected in treaty negotiations? Judge MacInnes resolved every issue against the Métis Federation.
……Judge MacInnes applied the criteria enunciated by the Supreme Court and came to the only possible conclusion given the evidence before him. The land distributed under the Manitoba Act was not land over which the Métis could validly claim Aboriginal title. End of case.
Within hours of the decision David Chartrand, president of the MMF, gave an interview indicating the intention to appeal the decision. But he went further, and said that he did not expect justice from the Manitoba Court of Appeal, and it would be necessary to proceed to the Supreme Court of Canada to obtain a fair hearing. The same sentiment was implicit in an op-ed article he wrote for the Free Press some weeks later, in which he expressed the hope the case would be before the Supreme Court in three years time.
Chartrand is wrong in his assumption that the Court of Appeal is predisposed to dismiss the appeal. But he is right to be pessimistic about the result. The fact is that the only real hope for success is if the criteria for determining aboriginal title are altered, and only the Supreme Court is in a position to make that decision. Neither Judge MacInnes at trial, nor the Court of Appeal on review of his decision, have the right to alter the criteria laid down by our highest court.
I have a suggestion. Why not bypass the Court of Appeal and go directly to the Supreme Court? The saving in both time and costs would be enormous. At trial a total of nine lawyers appeared for the parties. There could well be two years of work in preparing the matter for a hearing before the Court of Appeal - a hearing that the MMF claims to be an exercise in futility, and for which, for totally different reasons would seem to be a sound prediction. The members of the Court of Appeal who must hear the case would probably be pleased to pass the torch directly to the Supreme Court in a matter that would consume their time and energy, when a spokesperson for the appellants has already predicted a biased result. ......
Charles Huband is a former justice on the Manitoba Court of Appeal.
Just some interesting thoughts for where one might stand and where things might go.
Sunday, March 2, 2008
Land Claims Case - Where will this go?
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27 comments:
Thank you for this article. Our family has jumped across three provinces. Living briefly in Saskatchewan, Alberta and now in British columbia. We are Red river Decendants, but are watching from afar.
This court case should encompass all families who are decendants from the Red River not just those who continue to reside in Manitoba.
If we had the Metis National Council speaking for all of us Metis across Canada this should be a National issue, not just a few select families at the MMF.
Keep up the work on the blog.. Us Red river in the West are behind you. PS. Why are you not in Metis government straighting all this mess out. ?
An experience I had may help a little.
A MB court ruled that GST had to be collected on reserves for any wrestling events I held that because according the the GST people it was not a normal day to day band business.
Then it was appealed to the Federal Courth and the decision was reversed. The same GST agent told me now I did not have to collect GST for wrestling events on reserve land.
With politically appointed judges, who knows what the outcome will be or what phone calls they receive from politicans???
The only thing that is certain is the corruption within governments of all levels that goes undetected until someone blows the whistle when they get fired removed from their position for some political reason.
My ancestors had scripts but they lived in the north.
Hi Metis Mama
You Google When Paul Proulx
came to Manitoba
JULIE riel Sold Paul Proulx St Boniface There,s a land claim
Ha ha Bot i have copy,s of script for St Boniface Cathedal
Church in St Agathe I HAVE OVER
A dOZEN but our name is not on
famous dave list ha ha
Vyeu Mechif Rene
Read this press Release by the Metis National council
Métis National Council calls on Federal Government to deal with Métis Claims
‘Justice At Last’ must be ‘Justice For All’
Ottawa, ON (June 14, 2007) --- Today, Clément Chartier, President of the Métis National Council (MNC) called on the Harper Government to begin work with the Métis Nation in order to develop and implement a Métis-specific process to resolve outstanding Métis claims from Ontario westward.
President Chartier congratulated the Assembly of First Nations and First Nation leadership for securing reforms in order to address the backlog of First Nation treaty claims, but added, “it is misleading to leave Canadians with the impression that the reforms announced this week will address the claims of all Aboriginal peoples. Canada’s Constitution recognizes and affirms the rights of the Indian, Inuit and Métis peoples. The reforms announced this week exclude the Métis. Canadians need to know that the ‘Justice At Last’ announcement is not justice for all. It is only justice for some.”
Currently, the Métis are excluded from the federal government’s specific and comprehensive claims processes, even though the Supreme Court of Canada, in its 2003 landmark decision in R. v. Powley, recognized that the Métis are a full fledged rights-bearing people whose rights are equal to those of other Aboriginal peoples. The Métis Nation and its leadership have continued to call upon the federal government to work with them in order to establish a Métis claims policy that can begin to address outstanding Métis claims, outside of litigation.
President Chartier said, “I am calling on Prime Minister Harper and Minister Prentice to work with us in order to develop a collaborative process that can begin to address Métis claims. This would be timely because this year will be an important year for the Métis Nation’s rights agenda. We expect several decisions on Métis rights from courts across western Canada. The most significant of these decisions will be the historic Manitoba Métis Federation v. Canada case, which we expect will be handed down in the next few months,” said President Chartier.
At issue in the Manitoba Métis Federation v. Canada case is whether Canada and Manitoba fulfilled their obligations to the Métis with respect to the Manitoba Act’s commitments to establishing a Métis land base, as set out in sections 31 and 32 of the Manitoba Act. The Manitoba Métis Federation, on behalf of the Manitoba Métis, is asking the court to make declarations that Canada reached a treaty with the Métis in 1870 and that Canada and Manitoba failed to fulfill their constitutional and treaty obligations to the Métis. The case seeks a series of declarations that would then require Crown-Métis negotiations in order to address compensation. For additional information on the case visit the MMF’s website at www.mmf.mb.ca.
“Without question, the MMF case will dramatically affect future Crown-Métis relations and will most likely require some form of negotiations between the Métis and Canada in order for the federal government to address its outstanding obligations to the Métis people. I believe we have the opportunity, if the Harper Government wants to take a proactive approach, to develop an effective and results-oriented Métis claims process. Our preferred approach has always been negotiation, versus litigation or confrontation. We hope we can find a willing partner for negotiations with the Harper government in order to achieve justice for all,” concluded Chartier.
The MNC represents the Métis Nation in Canada at the national and international level. The Métis Nation’s homeland includes the three Prairie provinces and extends into Ontario, British Columbia, the Northwest Territories and the northern United States. There are approximately 350,000 – 400,000 Métis Nation citizens in Canada.
For further information on the judgment visit www.metisnation.org or contact:
Zoran Vidic
Senior Communications Officer
(613) 295-9298
(613) 232-3216 ext. 124
email: zoranv@metisnation.ca
It can be found here:
http://www.metisnation.ca/press/07-june14.html
NOTE: Currently all the "JUSTICE FOR ALL" only include Metis decendants that are currently residing in Manitoba and Members of the MMF. Justice for ALL would mean all Decendants that came from the Red River who had Land plots in the Red River!
Quite an article with so many UNTRUTHS.
Hi Metis Mama
Vyeu Mchif again David does not represent Only Metis That live in
Manitaba The only people MMFrepresnt is 12 family,s the ones he wants i have two hunded imediate family that lives in Man. and they are not on the list
So my opinion it,s a waste of our metis dollars to benfit a few more family member,s of m m f
If like the residental school settlements, financial compensation when direct to each Metis with a genealogy book to provide they are Metis, then that would be welcome. However, if the money is paid directed to the MNC or the MMF, it would not be a good thing.
Certain criteria, such as family ncome, should determine the amount as well. If someone is making 100 grand a year, then I dont think they need the same financial package as those living in poverty but I doubt we, The Metis, will see one penny.
Land claims is history and should remain in the past. Special rights for FN or Metis shouldn't be allowed. Sure we suffered lose, humiliation, and racism, but everyone needs to realize that law suits are not the way to go. Forget about it, and strive to be best you can be with what you have. I don't believe in special programs that give one group of people special advantages of another.
I don't believe in the "Culture" that all these wanna be Metis are trying to reenact. Its not Culture - it is traditions that died a long time ago - we live in the 21 century "Canadian Culture" - we can practice our traditions but it isn't our culture.
We deserve nothing from the government NOTHING - our ancestors who were wronged do, but not us. If a member of society can't make it on his own then they deserve to be where they are. I know many Metis millionaires who did it themselves without outside help.
I firmly believe in assimilation of the powers that be in a society, otherwise society will not work with everyone wanting to do their own thing. Multicultural societies are a drain on resourses and do nothing but further seperate the people.
I am proud of my heritage - but I am also proud of my future and my childrens future. They will make it without playing the race card of "Metis". They will be strong "Canadian" "American" and "Russian" they will know of their heritage and where they come from but they will work for themselves and their communities where they live as who they are, not who they were.
The government can keep its money - amd disband all these "Aboriginal groups" make everyone fend for themselves. At least this way no one will be able to take money not belonging to them.
Time for all aboriginals to get off the government teat.
Not all Metis are as fortunate as you Frank.
Metis were forced off there land and forced to go live in a small tents in ditches.
Metis had the Mounties come into there home, take the meat they had shot over the summer and charge the metis with hunting violations when they were just trying to fee there family. Thus they had not meet over the winter and had to go to court for doing what they did all their lives, feed their family.
The lack of opportunity was passed down from generation to generation, the only way to change that is through the government programs to help the metis become self sufficent.
Not all metis are as fortunate as you to have a good career.
I did not have a chance to get a good education but I want my children to be able to do that and my son goes to university next year without any help from the metis organizations.
While you sit there with your good job or your good life, others are not as fortunate, maybe you should consider them before you pass judgement from abroad on what is good or not good for metis in manitoba or in canada.
I have to tell you I am not in support of assimilation. In fact, Frank – I feel sorry for you that whatever happened to you through your involvement at MMF – that you have come to this place of agitation. My grandparents gave me a strong passion for who I am and entrenched my identity through their actions. None of which ever involved handouts or free rides. My Grandfather’s favorite words were, “There are no free lunches – everything comes at a cost.” I also knew a Métis professor/elder who I consider a very dear friend who always advised me that it is good to fight for our rights as Métis people and that we should not ever quit but that when we entrench those rights we always need to remember the responsibility that comes with them. They do have a cost and we have a responsibility to put in place for the future generations the same principles that our ancestors gave to us.
There are prophets from many cultures that believe the responsibility of the ‘mixed blood people’ is greater then many of the other nations that come to the world. Take pride in who you are – extend that pride to your children and grandchildren – not for what they get – but because the rich culture and sense of pride in our heritage is what will assist us in understanding our role in our community. Even Louis Riel believed in working with other nations of people and living in harmony but never to the assimilation of his own culture.
As for the potential for resources to ever come from a law suit of this kind – I would hope that the development of a trust that would put any potential resources into a program that would earn more and be available to educate Métis youth of the future generations. This would help us leave a legacy that would never disappear. As Métis – many of the early entrepreneurs who were the direct individuals effected by policies of the Conservative government of the 1800’s contributed greatly to the development and cultivating of Canada. It would be a great legacy to ensure that the Métis youth of the future remain proud contributing members of the future of Canada. In fact – I would love to see a Métis Prime Minister or any other number of key leadership roles for our Métis of the future.
This post by Frank Godon just irks me to my soul. It is quite obvious that this Gentlemen has not lived as a Metis person or perhaps maybe wore a sash once or twice not as a functional item but for show.
It is quite alright if you were born looking as a non-aboriginal and can blend and fit better into the Mainstream society, but who are you talking for?
My Grandmother and Grandfather and GGrandmother and father, before them, both danced, played the traditional instruments, Yes, the rest of the children were raised in the same home and did not ignore the traditions in the home, spoke the language and danced and played the same instruments taught to them by their ancestors. I was raised with my grandmother, she taught me how to dry meat, dress a moose, and tan hides. I am also the first one to graduate out of whole total line of Metis people and have self taught my self how to use the computer. I still have my Grandfathers sash, that was passed to me by my mother. My grandmothers words still echo in my mind that one day Metis people will have better lives. They hoped for me to get an education, and did not have to live like they did. Yes, Mr. Goodon you are the privileged few, are you sure you were not in Metis government at one time and forgot what it is like for the Metis grassroots people?
I did not have those opportunities to go to the higher learning centres. The Stigmization of being Identified as a aboriginal person, denied jobs, the differential treatment in schools. Yes, we were along side our First Nations cousins in the treatment, but not recognized until now as one of the Aboriginal peoples in Section 35 of the Constitution.
I think one of the most destructive realities in our own nation is that our own people like you who do not get out enough to learn about your nation, do not understand Metis struggles now, and since before pre-confederation. Our Own people dragging each other down, rather than supporting our nation. We are still here, we did not get assimulated, our challenges are still before us and still here.
Us in Northern Bc, and Northern Alberta do not live close to Ottawa, or perhaps in Metis government do not have the same opportunities. Either your in the club or your out is a reality of the Metis people. The Northern Latitudes due to its remoteness did not have the influences of the city, YES, we still hunt and fish and carry on our traditions.
Do Us all a favor Mr. Goodon, get out more visit the Rural areas.
Ernie, I wouldn't call me a fortunate person - just one who has taken many risks - some good - some bad - My family isn't rich or even close to it. My parents survive on their pensions and are always, even on their meager amounts, ready to help their children and grandchildren. It has always been that way. My fathers teaching was much the same as MM's, there is no free lunch and you must do what you can for yourself. I am where I am through hard work, and discipline which was given to me through the USMC.
It was while living in the US where I noticed that the most successful people are those who keep their traditions but remain true to their American culture, (and yes it is an assimilated culture) That is why America is as great as it it. It was a melting pot, yes everyone kept their pride in their heritage, but everyone also became "American" and that pride is what makes them who they are.
The Native Americans refuse to become assimilated and are stuck on their getto reservations. Same as our FN are forever stuck on their getto reserves. They refuse to give up their "old ways" and hence are left in the dust. To dream of what was instead of trying to make something of what could be.
The Metis used to be the entrepenures of Canada, proud of their ability to work with and help the other nations that came and also lived with them. But they became like the FN and started to desire handouts and programs from the government. The people "Who were not owned" became slaves to the government. Instead of assimimlating themselves into the 20th century and maybe by doing so could in turn assimilate those around them they became part of the multiculturalism and sadly the were reduced to "Olivers" with their porriage bowls asking for "more please" from the great white father government.
We have created this culture of government dependency and are now paying for it by our leaders who think that they are the little kings and queens of a "nation".
You say that assimilation is bad, but think, we Metis assimilated that from the old world and that from the new world and made it our own. We assimilated everything that was thrown at us and made it our own. If it didn't suit our needs we changed it until it did.
That has been lost to the culture we now have - the culture of dependency on Ottawa. I think the most successful Metis have been those who have had no dealing with any Metis organization. Or even care.
Ernie I have also wittnessed the confiscation of game etc of Metis but those I know went back out after and got some more. I have never know any our Metis of the Turtle mountains to have ever gone hungry even when the game was taken by officers etc.
I never got my degree until I was 35, but I worked toward it. My daughters in Canada go to university by their own merrit (good grades and qualifications for bursaries) and compete with others of different nationalities on a level playing ground. Thats the way it should be. I have always been of the thinking that there is no such thing as fortunate or unfortunate. We all make it what it is by our own merrit. My father was an alchololic after the war (WW2) because he spent 11 months as a POW and received no help from VA. He stopped drinking (and smoking) at the same time and on his own through AA. He then proceeded to make a better life for his family. But he had to do that himself, no one was going to do that for him. Just as myself, no one will do anything for me, I have to do it myself. Fortunate, or unfortunate has nothing to do with it.
Government programs just makes slaves out of people and makes them dependent on the "Nanny state" that most NDP and Liberals want us to become.
When I was left here in Russia high and dry by David, I didn't complain or give in, I found ways to provide for myself in a foreigne land, with out being able to speak the language or understand a lot. I adapted, improvised, and overcame. That is what our ancestors did, and that is what every Metis needs to do when faced with obsticles. NOT go to the government for some program or hand out.
I appologize for any spelling mistakes, but I'm using a Russian computer and the spell checker is set for Russian language not English.
You know Frank - a few weeks back you indicated interest in being the President of the Metis National Council - with the views that you share - what would have been your objective?
Now you explain it that way, I agree with you on the Self sufficiency. I never needed Metis Government to prove for me.
I sure wish they would assist me more, but then again, It depends who you gain favor from and who you do not...
The Land claims case, perhaps it will be a new avenue of Self sufficency for our people.. Frank
To the anonymous person who commented on the sash - etc - To me the sash is a symbol of our people and I am proud to wear one. - My grandfather and family never wore sashes and were considered just half breeds. Because of our closeness to the US border we associated more with the Native on the Turtle Mountain Chippewa Reservation than other Metis in MB. (which is made up of mostly Metis who moved there in the late 1800's)But we did continue the traditions of our forefathers, trapping, hunting, gathering, etc.
My job here in Russia is to teach the history and culture of the Metis people. I also teach some FN but mostly have focused on Metis. I have been in the bush and have met with Metis from all the western provinces. In all types of situations, settlement Metis in AB, bush Metis in SK and MB and the Metis in southern and northern BC.
MM - My objective as president would have been to first of all gett the government to issue identity cards for all those who are Metis (according to the definition that has been accepted) Thats every one of the Metis that Census had gathered(400,000)This way the government knows who we are. From this bases we would build our nation.
I would seek a termination of all provincial bodies and regroup our nation on a national level. This 5 - 8 thousand people organisations claiming to speak for the all Metis is BS. Have our people work directly with a national body. Therefore any programs that is needed has only one level of administration to go through. When I talk of programs, I am speaking of programs that are availible for all people regardless of race. I am not against government programs, I am against race specific programs. These type of programs keep us slaves to the government. Any program that focuses on race in itself is racist.
Under a national program for our people, from all 10 provinces, with a governing assembley from each province voted in by the people and a president voted in by the people, I believe we could move forward with our adgenda of making life better for our people and teach them how to compete not just take.
Give our people a helping hand not a hand out. This way we can assimilate ourselves into a "Canadian society" But also for this to happen other "cultures" in Canada have to stop this multiculturism also and become Canadian.
Do not lose our traditions, but become part of strong "Canadian culture" a 21st century culture.
I'll turn it back to you first, Frank. Are you Canadian or are you American? According to your logic, you can't be both. And then, to take it one step further, are you Russian?
Your logic doesn't make sense. How about this one?
I am Canadian. I have a birth certificate and a passport from Canada.
I am Manitoban. I grew up here and live here and have a health card from here.
I am a Brandonite. Although I grew up in the Turtle Mountains, I now live in Brandon.
I am a Dad. I have two kids.
I am Metis. I had Metis ancestors and my Dad taught me many things about being Metis. So did my cousins, and aunties and uncles. Some things I had to discover for myself, just like many hundreds of Metis across the homeland.
Again, your logic makes no sense. Why can't I be Metis, Canadian, Manitoban, a Brandonite, a Dad and many other identities.
Here's one for you.
My nationality is Canadian.
My culture and heritage is Metis.
Frank Goodon,
Well nice to meet you, nice to know that someone is teaching the Metis Culture Internationally. As I know the Metis people did not have borders, boundaries were established after the fact of our communities establishment. I agree with you on the Indentification, that is the problem across Canada, that our Nation is not being identified in proper manner. Decisions are being made upon our behalf, and being represented to government as Metis people's aspirations.
As for the comment concerning origins, I am from the Red River in origin, and different from those that are claiming to be Metis who did not originate their but still have roots prior to Pre-confederation ie. BC Fort Decendants.
You have this all backwards, I would see Elimination of the MNC top heavy government. Direct Consultation power to the Provinces. Who better to speak for the Province itself than the Provincial leaders (backed by the Grassroots of course) who understand the needs of the Metis people. Giving Power to a body that has minimial contact with Provincial affairs would only lead to disaster.
Too shay Will! I have been trying to keep the logic straight myself and I am now thinking maybe – hmmm….
I have Scottish ancestors
I have Irish ancestors
I have French ancestors
I have Indian ancestors
And as a result of all of the above my grandmothers and grandfathers were not white – they were not Indian. They lived outside of the Forts and were not allowed to live within the Indian communes. They were half-breeds. The Métis. They carried half-breed script and were often displaced. They were survivors. As one of the Métis Anthems declare – “They were the True Canadians”.
Now never do I run around and tell people I am Indian, I am French, I am Irish or I am Scottish. My Grandmother told me I was a Half Breed and never have I been confused about that.
Now why would anyone be upset or think I was asking for something special because I am Métis? I am only taking what is my birthright – which is to be who I am with the entitlements that my ancestors gave to me through hard work and their advocacy. No other culture has had to defend their identity the way that we seem to – If someone comes up to us and says I am Japanese – do we say well what kind – one mixed with some European or are you a Japanese Canadian or maybe an American Japanese . No – we accept they are Japanese and entitled to what ever birthright exists as a result of who they are.
Also – I have to tell you – I do not want MNC delivering our programs – Isn’t that what got us into this mess already – they screwed up the health bursary program? Just thought I would add to your identity crisis – Hope you are not confusing those Russians over there.
My priorities when it comes to my culture and allegiance lies first to Canada my country of birth, then to the US whom I have sworn my allegiance to. Then comes my traditional Metis(ness). In it I have a pride of "Thats where I come from". But to call it my culture, far from it.
I am not talking about nationality - since there is no Metis nationality - I am talking about culture. Which culture do live in - which culture is priority in your life - Are you Canadian or Metis.
I identify with the Canadian culture (seeing it is the predominant culture and should be since I am from Canada)I have American citizenship but don't identify with that culture.
All I am saying here is Aboriginals, (FN and Metis) need to give their head a shake and get with the program. There is no Aboriginal culture of today - we have traditions - our culture was destroyed decades ago - Canadian culuture has taken its place. Its time to be "Canadians"
If you start acting like Canadians, and thinking like Canadians, then Damn it you'll be Canadians. Multiculturism will always keep us divided.
Yeah, that is a good question, anonymous.
If Frank thinks our culture died out generations ago, why is he teaching this dead culture to Russians?
Will.. What did that guys say on Monty Python as they were carrying the dead out after the Plague. "I'm NOT Dead Yet"! With one finger up while he was being hauled out. hehehe
Hey! Some keeps saying I am dead and gone with no culture. Holly man, how long you been in Russia? Sure you were not exiled to Russia?
We are live and well, and play our instruments, Dance and sing, and teach all the traditions that our forefathers did. We didn't just learn this and put on clothes to pretend! This is who we are! So you are telling me to forget who I am ...
hmmmmmmmm
"If Frank thinks our culture died out generations ago, why is he teaching this dead culture to Russians?"
Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:35:00 PM
I am teaching the culture because it is part of the history of our people. But I am teaching it as it should be taught - as traditions - I am not a Plains buffalo hunter or woodlands gather or even a hunter of other animals - I don't play the fiddle - or jig - although I love to go to venues that celebrate our "TRADITIONS" - My culture is current 21st century "CANADIAN" which is ever evolving. Geneologically I am a METIS - Culturally I am "CANADIAN"
FN and METIS cultures are dead. History. We can sit back and remember the "GLORY DAYS" - but thats not how we live.
WIll and Metis Mamma if you live the Metis Culture then I ask you not to be hypocritical and drive new cars, live in new houses with all the current inventions that make our 21st Century Culture. You need to have horses, and live in log or mud homes, and hunt for a living not go to the grocery store for your food. You get the picture - like everyone else you are confusing culture with tradition.
You can't have it both ways - either you are Canadian and live in the present or you are Metis and live in the past.
Metis and FN people don't want to be part of the present and whine and complain that because they didn't get treated properly a hundred years ago that they are owed their inherent rights.
Tell that to the millions of people around the world who through wars etc have lost their inherent rights.
Will tell that to the French government and Roman Catholic church that ran our forefathers off of our lands in the Normandy region of France in the 18th century. It doesn't work that way.
Get with the program and build a stronger Canada together instead of tearing it down by playing the cultural victim cards.
Anonymous said...
"We are live and well, and play our instruments, Dance and sing, and teach all the traditions that our forefathers did. We didn't just learn this and put on clothes to pretend! This is who we are! So you are telling me to forget who I am ...
hmmmmmmmm"
Thursday, March 06, 2008 12:44:00 AM
NOT in the least forget who you are - just don't claim that you can be different from other Canadians because you are "Metis" or "FN". Just don't demand that you receive special programs because of your race. Don't whine and complain and use the "Victim" card everytime to justify why our people are in poverty or out of work.
The point here is that we as Metis need to act like Canadians, not some special interest group. Get off our asses and do something for ourselves by ourselves. Who the f*ck cares if our lands were taken from our ancestors, and why should we benifit from their suffering. The land belonged to them, and they got f*cked over. Cry me a river build a bridge and get over it. We will never get the land back, and any monitary compensation will never in a hundred years make it to all the descendants of the RR. It will go to people like David and Clem.
Anonymous you used the right word when you said "Traditions" but you need to live in the 21st Canadian culture. We all do, multiculturism is breaking Canada up and sad to say it is creeping into the US as well.
The sooner we become a melting pot the better.
There seems to be a few dimensions to this debate that are getting mixed up....
1-those that contend MNC does not represent Metis people and therefore has no right to negotiate with the Government[-all true]
2-but this then gets mixed up with, or is used to cast dispersion on all Metis particularly those Metis that contend and assert that Metis were wronged and as such have a right to seek redress up to and including the right to live & be governed according to Metis culture and traditions.
Metis like F.N people were not asked whether they wanted to assimilate they were told.Force,violence and anti-democratic means were the means by which Metis and FN peoples were disposed.
Therefore Metis people and FN people have every right to fight for and demand that Canada acknowledge and work with Metis peoples (as equals)so that this past and the ongoing injustice stemming from this "past",are finally put right.
Metis people do have valid claims and concerns.They like F.N people do have the right to live as Metis and to be governed according to their own culture,traditions etc.Conversely those Metis & FN people(s)that want to join Canadian society can do so.No other people have a right to tell others how they must live and what form their relationship with other people(s) will be.
The fact the MNC is a flawed organization with no accountability to the grass roots does not change any of these basic rights and assertion.
But it does seem to divide Metis people.
I believe this is so,because it serves the government & its assimilationist agenda.
The leadership plays the governments and the lawyers games while at the same time,they are not being accountable to the very people they supposedly represent.This is an absurd situation.
What's needed is an org that is beholding to and elected by the Metis peoples,openly and democratically.One that is not lubed and beholding to Canada (government)nor its monies,agenda's,or the Indian Act.
Metis people like FN peoples need orgs that truly represent their respective peoples.
Outfits like MNC and AFN are creations of the government,(bought and payed) and were put in place to meet the needs of Canada,not those of the Metis peoples or FN's peoples.The same government that has a vested interest in assimilation.
To sum it up Metis and FN peoples must have their own representatives/governance orgs. Orgs that are mandated(elected) and beholding to the Metis & FN peoples not to Ottawa.
There seems to be a few dimensions to this debate that are getting mixed up....
1-those that contend MNC does not represent Metis people and therefore has no right to negotiate with the Government[-all true]
2-but this then gets mixed up with, or is used to cast dispersion on all Metis particularly those Metis that contend and assert that Metis were wronged and as such have a right to seek redress up to and including the right to live & be governed according to Metis culture and traditions.
Metis like F.N people were not asked whether they wanted to assimilate they were told.Force,violence and anti-democratic means were the means by which Metis and FN peoples were disposed.
Therefore Metis people and FN people have every right to fight for and demand that Canada acknowledge and work with Metis peoples (as equals)so that this past and the ongoing injustice stemming from this "past",are finally put right.
Metis people do have valid claims and concerns.They like F.N people do have the right to live as Metis and to be governed according to their own culture,traditions etc.Conversely those Metis & FN people(s)that want to join Canadian society can do so.No other people have a right to tell others how they must live and what form their relationship with other people(s) will be.
The fact the MNC is a flawed organization with no accountability to the grass roots does not change any of these basic rights and assertion.
But it does seem to divide Metis people.
I believe this is so,because it serves the government & its assimilationist agenda.
The leadership plays the governments and the lawyers games while at the same time,they are not being accountable to the very people they supposedly represent.This is an absurd situation.
What's needed is an org that is beholding to and elected by the Metis peoples,openly and democratically.One that is not lubed and beholding to Canada (government)nor its monies,agenda's,or the Indian Act.
Metis people like FN peoples need orgs that truly represent their respective peoples.
Outfits like MNC and AFN are creations of the government,(bought and payed) and were put in place to meet the needs of Canada,not those of the Metis peoples or FN's peoples.The same government that has a vested interest in assimilation.
To sum it up Metis and FN peoples must have their own representatives/governance orgs. Orgs that are mandated(elected) and beholding to the Metis & FN peoples not to Ottawa.
Ok Dirk, first I have to say that by the way you write, you must be either a Liberal or a NDP supporter – maybe not political but your
thinking is on the left wing side. With that in mind I understand why you wish to have the “equality” for the Metis and FN cousins and why you want to “set right the injustices in the past”.
There seems to be a few dimensions to this debate that are getting mixed up....
1-those that contend MNC does not represent Metis people and therefore has no right to negotiate with the Government[-all true]
2-but this then gets mixed up with, or is used to cast dispersion on all Metis particularly those Metis that contend and assert that Metis were wronged and as such have a right to seek redress up to and including the right to live & be governed according to Metis culture and traditions.
First of all whether we have a body like MNC or the provincial bodies representing us really doesn’t make a big difference. And I agree with your further statements that they are there to play the government and lawyer games. But I disagree with the statement:
“Metis that contend and assert that Metis were wronged and as such have a right to seek redress up to and including the right to live & be governed according to Metis culture and traditions.”
In a perfect left-winged world where everyone is equal this might work. But we live in a society, (a modern Canadian culture) where cultures like our Metis and the FN’s cannot co-exist and still be beneficial to society.
Metis like F.N people were not asked whether they wanted to assimilate they were told. Force, violence and anti-democratic means were the means by which Metis and FN peoples were disposed.
Looking at this from the 21st century, yea it’s very terrible, but we cannot judge the government of the time (19th century) with 21st century logic. It was the “norm” to force those whom you have conquered to adapt to your ways and yes even take on characteristics of your culture. The main word here Dirk is “Conquered”. A stronger culture had overtaken a weaker culture, get used to this, its life and reality and it happens all over the world. It’s happening right now in places like Russia and former Soviet states. Western culture is growing and taking over their once Communist culture. These people are adapting and taking advantage of the good parts of this “evolution”.
You may not want to admit it but western culture has already taken over the Metis and FN’s but they all dream of a day when they can return to the culture of their ancestors thus this puts them at odds with main stream Canadians, and some main stream Canadians are getting pissed off at this. Tolerance is one thing, but to allow a people group to tear up your country based on their suppressed culture is another. I don’t believe that is what our Metis forefathers foreseen for our people.
Therefore Metis people and FN people have every right to fight for and demand that Canada acknowledge and work with Metis peoples (as equals)so that this past and the ongoing injustice stemming from this "past", are finally put right.
Here is the big question to what you wrote; WHY? What has happened in the past is done, it can’t be undone without tearing a country apart. The Aboriginal peoples of Canada were defeated, they were conquered. They need to accept this, quit playing the “VICTIMS” ( and I realize that a left leaner like yourself wants these people to kept this up because it furthers your causes). The Liberal governments of the past made a grave error when they started to negotiate land claims and wrongs done to Aboriginal peoples by governments of the past. One cannot compensate for what has happened. It will destroy a country to do so. Unfortunately since this Pandora’s box has been opened the current and future governments have to play along and sad to say probably until it destroys our country.
Metis people do have valid claims and concerns. They like F.N people do have the right to live as Metis and to be governed according to their own culture, traditions etc. Conversely those Metis & FN people(s)that want to join Canadian society can do so. No other people have a right to tell others how they must live and what form their relationship with other people(s) will be.
The “No other people have a right to tell others how they must live and what form their relationship with other people(s) will be.” part is wrong. We live in a country, a country with laws that people must obey. If those laws are broken (no matter the reason) then it’s illegal. To me that sounds like someone telling others how to live. If your culture is counterproductive to society then yes society has a right to tell you how you must live. If your culture keeps you from being a productive citizen in society then yes it has right to tell you how to live.
I am not against our culture, or as I see it traditions. We as Aboriginal people can get together share what our forefathers have given us, and hell even make a little money from it. But in the end we go home and lead productive lives in Canadian society the mainstream culture that is accepted by everyone else in the country except the small majority who want their culture to be number one in their lives.
Dirk, if you are Aboriginal then you need to give up the victim game. You need to stop blaming the past for short comings (if you have any). Because Riel was hung and our people were scattered doesn’t give us the right today to play a guilt game on the rest of Canada. You need to get out of Canada and live in other countries where far worse atrocities have happened but you don’t see the people demanding retribution. When one sits back and looks at Canada from afar, they get a better picture of what is going on. I will admit I was like you and other Metis, I believed in a Metis Nation. I believed the victim ness of our people. Fortunately for me I was able to see through the smoke and mirrors to the reality of what our country could be for me as an Aboriginal person who accepts mainstream Canadian-ism.
FG said..."Dirk, if you are Aboriginal then you need to give up the victim game. You need to stop blaming the past for short comings (if you have any)"....
First I am not First Nation or Metis but I have had a very long & intimate relationship with F.N & Metis peoples.
But back to your response,....
You have missed the point entirely.
Its not about victim hood or feeling sorry for oneself.
It's about acknowledging the "past", its about acknowledging that,the "past" injustices did take place,that contradiction and pathologies arose that still resonate within and affect the health,cultue and well being of Metis and F.N communities/nations.
This is fact its not opinion,and me pointing it out has nothing to do with victim hood or blame.
All sides must acknowledge the "past" so that we can finally begin to move forward and put right the injustices etc,[again there is a direct connection of that "past" to many of the problems that exist to this day in Indian/Metis country].
Only then can we hope to finally find,the ways and means to go forward.
Surely you agree that the status-quo and the governance mechanism that exist,not only between Metis themselves but also between the Metis and the gov, are totally inadequate & unacceptable.
There are two sides to the story here,the knife cuts both ways.
To blame all problems on the Metis or FN peoples,as individuals or as a community, is a pointless game.
Enough of the blame game,its part of the problem.
The time is long overdue,for the government to recognize that Metis people and F.N peoples do have legitimate grievances and certain rights as people/Nations and communities.
Both sides must work with each others as equals before a truly democratic and new relationship can be forged.Unlike the past and the still mainly one-sided expectations of the gov and many many whites.
What this relationship might look like is anyones guess,whether it be autonomy within Canada or some form of federation etc etc.
But,it can only be built by including the Metis and F.N grassroots.
The leadership of both people must be transparent and most importantly accountable to the grassroots.
Both the dominate society ,Metis and F.N will have to make changes and certain adjustments,the clock can not be turned back. But it can take the "past" into account so as to make right the present.
To expect Metis or F.N people to always have to meet the needs of Canada over and above their own needs etc is patently unfair and un-democratic.It was and is, precisely this type of thinking that has led us to the present.
Again,where Metis and F.N people are always expected to have to adapt to the needs of others,their culture their laws their history, while the others do not have to give up anything or adapt so that both communities can live together respectfully and as equals.
Enough already,Canada can do so much better.
Lets try this again
A copy of whats posted on Dustmybroom
To expect Metis or F.N people to always have to meet the needs of Canada over and above their own needs etc is patently unfair and un-democratic.It was and is, precisely this type of thinking that has led us to the present.
Again,where Metis and F.N people are always expected to have to adapt to the needs of others,their culture their laws their history, while the others do not have to give up anything or adapt so that both communities can live together respectfully and as equals.
Dirk let me go to what TBR had written about other people coming to Canada.
Thirty years ago, Manitoba saw an influx of what was then known as "boat people." Vietnamese refugees. You want to talk poverty? You want to talk culture? Here were thousands of peasants brought from a tropical rain forest to the coldest city of its size on the planet. Ripped from their cultural roots, living in poverty worse than any Indian reserve, what happened to them?
Well, last time we looked, they were hard working taxpayers, often running sweaty corner stores or getting up early to go to their factory jobs to raise their families and watch their children collect university degrees rather than criminal records.
Twenty-five years ago we saw a new batch of immigrants, what we then called East Indians to differentiate them from the local variety. Talk about racism. With their beards and turbans they attracted the evil attention of every lunatic in the country. Where are they now?
Well, they eventually bought the taxi company that gave them their first jobs in this country. We see them in Parliament and in the hospitals. We never heard police ask for help finding a suspect "Sikh in appearance."
And the native people who were here when the Vietnamese arrived. Still whining about their lost culture. And the aboriginal people who saw the Indians arrive? Still whining about how they're all in jail because of racism. And still on welfare or begging for money downtown.
My question here is, What makes FN and Metis any special from those that came to this land with their cultures ripped from them? No Dirk, the Government doesn't owe the Aboriginals of this land anything, its the Aboriginals that need to get with the program, stop playing victims, stop their terrorist acts of occupying land that isn't theirs, etc. Get with the program. Life isn't fair Dirk, and we can't always be fixing the problems of history.
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